We have been discussing “THE LAWSUIT” on the previous topic and, of course, it is being discussed on other sites as well. One of our loyal readers and I have corresponded off the blog a big, and realized that “THE LAWSUIT” brings up a myriad of issues.
I’m not sure if she wants to be identified so until she tells me it is okay, I won’t do it, but she whipped up a list of the first ones that came to her mind, which are right in line with my thinking as well. Since I am a bit pressed for time, she has graciously allowed me to copy her writings.
I would love discussion on this, both by MKers and those that are not in MK (whether former or never).
The initial conversation revolved around the fact that Touch of Pink (”TOP”) has old product listed on their site for sale. Now that in itself is not terrible, but also listed is product that Mary Kay Corporate recalled. Does anyone remember the lip wands that developed a mold problem? Corporate recalled these and replaced any that had been purchased. TOP has these listed for sale. The average Connie Customer does not know that these wands had a problem, nor does she know that the company recalled them. If she purchases one, gets sick or disfigured, what kind of liability does Mary Kay corporate have? This type of discussion is what led the the following list of issues as well as the understanding of why MK had to pursue this legal action.
1. What is a consultant to do with old inventory or inventory that is about to reach its expiration date?
2. As recruiters/directors, what obligation do we have to our team members who are looking to get out of MK to help them liquidate? What steps can we take? Especialy if they’re not returning our calls/emails/letters?
3. What should we do when we receive emails from other consultants asking for products that were discontinued so long ago that they’d easily be expired now?
4. Should we actively email MKC every instance of seeing product sold on eBay, at garage sales, etc?
5. How should we handle it when a client comes to us to return product that is (a) expired and/or (b) they didn’t buy from us? How can we send them to 1-800-marykay without alienating them?
6. What is our response to clients who ask about this lawsuit or PT or other negative sites or buying on eBay?
7. What should we do if we have sold product to a liquidator? Should a consultant call MKC and confess? Would the punishment be less?
I also commented that I didn’t know if TOP had a return policy. They do. It is listed below.
TOP does offer a 30 day return policy. Here it is:
Return Policy:
Your complete satisfaction is our top priority. If an item
you ordered from us does not meet your expectations, simply
return it by mail within 30 days of receiving it.
No refunds will be issued on returns received after 30 days
from the purchase date. No exceptions!
We will refund your credit card for the original purchase price
or exchange the item for you.
Exchange Policy:
If you need to exchange a product, please return it
to the address below within 30 days of purchase.
Please include a note with your exchange including what you’d like to exchange,
your full name and the email address you used with your order
so we can look up your order to reship your exchange to you.
To Return Merchandise:
Simply place the item and original paperwork securely in a package and mail to:
This is quite different from corporate’s return policy and I can see that Connie Customer might, after the 30 days, turn to a local consultant and try to return, exchange or get a refund, which leads back to the question above.
I have a few thoughts on all of these issues, but would love to hear from you first.
5 comments
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May 15, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Darci Consultant
I’ll happily identify myself as the one Me was emailing with about this topic.
1. I keep my inventory in a constant rotation and it’s very balanced so that I don’t have a bunch of old product. BUT with say the MK Signature eye colors/cheek colors, I will wrap up the few I have left and toss them in a basket and use them as gifts for guests who come to a meeting or for booking gifts at my classes - book a class tonight, pick a gift. I also work my business. None of it is expired. I think we, as consultants, have an obligation to stay aware of how old the product on our shelves is. I did discover a couple (and I do mean 2-3) bronze foundations on my shelf that had expired. I tossed them out, but losing 2 or 3 isn’t a big deal to me. My bigger concern is for consultants who are basically personal use, but came in with larger orders or consultants who have unbalanced inventories.
2. This is an area I struggle with. I am more than willing to do whatever I need to do to help my team members move product - helping them with open houses, giving them the facts about returning product, etc. - but there’s only so much I can do. If they won’t return my calls/emails/letters (or those from our director) and their 12 months passes, then they’ve lost the opportunity to return product to MK and their options are limited.
3. I constantly get emails from a consultant in my area who asks for OLD product. I usually ignore her pleas (90% of the time I don’t have what she wants), but I feel like responding to her to remind her that what’s she’s looking for is long expired and by selling it to her clients, she’s creating an opportunity to make us all look bad. I’ve also been burned by this consultant - I gave her a recently discontinued product once and asked for a TW Cleanser (or something like that) and got one that had expired. I just used that one for myself. Thoughts?
4. I have emailed MKC about consultants selling against the rules as I’ve described previously, but I don’t want to come across as a nark either. BUT I feel like these people are hurting us all.
5. I have taken back product not purchased from me because I feel like I’m providing better customer service that way and I want to keep a client happy. But with the lawsuit, I feel like I won’t anymore. I’ve also taken back expired product and when I returned it to MK, gotten a call saying “it’s expired and we don’t accept expired product. we’ll make an exception this time, but don’t do it again.” I wish MKC would limit its guarantee to non-expired product and would put that in the written guarantee. Also, that the product must be returned to the consultant you purchased it from. The current guarantee is vague.
6. I point out that yes, you can buy on ebay, but you have no idea if it’s fresh or how it’s stored. You also don’t know that it’s new. And you have no recourse if there’s a problem. As for PT and other negative sites, I say that there’s no “proof” that anyone on those sites was ever a consultant and that if stuff in MK were really like that then MK wouldn’t be around anymore.
7. I’ve never sold MK ilegally to a liquidator or on ebay or anything, but if I had, I would be pretty nervous right about now. And yes, I might call MKC ESPECIALLY if I was an active consultant and plead my case and offer to give them any reciepts I had from the liquidators to help MK. But first, I’d talk to my recruiter or director. I sure wouldn’t do any of that now.
May 15, 2008 at 4:17 pm
colleen
First of all I can guarantee you that if anything happens with expired product (infection etc..) the buyer of that product will blame MK Corporate and call them NOT TOP or any other liquidator for that matter!!! EBAY sales well I dont think there are THAT many people buying MK from ebay other than retired consultants and people who cant find expired product.
I keep seeing on the Internet people that are buying section 2 things like
eye applicators and things like that. Get Qtips for gods sake!! Im amazed at the amount of money some people (with the exception of samples) have bought in section 2!!!! The starter kit is a BARGAIN for 100.00 and if you hold 3 good classes and get 600.00 worth of inventory you can recoup that in a month!!! MKC should like Darci said get the agreement to go for non expired product and that would cut down on half of the problems. I think MK doesnt want to tick people off right now and they are thinking of ways to make money and give more to the consultants and directors. Its hard to make everyone happy at this point but for the most part MK is not losing TONS Of money to liquidators they are just trying to keep things legal. They as a company have to protect themselves like anyone else and although they make millions I dont blame them at all.
May 15, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Rebecca
1. What is a consultant to do with old inventory or inventory that is about to reach its expiration date?
– Have a sale to her existing customers.
2. As recruiters/directors, what obligation do we have to our team members who are looking to get out of MK to help them liquidate? What steps can we take? Especialy if they’re not returning our calls/emails/letters?
– Explain the options. Give ideas, suggestions. If they don’t return calls, etc., there’s nothing more I can do.
3. What should we do when we receive emails from other consultants asking for products that were discontinued so long ago that they’d easily be expired now?
– I just say they are way too old and I don’t have any. But, it may be possible to find an equivalent product, or close to, in the current product line. And it’s even possible the customer may actually like the new product better.
4. Should we actively email MKC every instance of seeing product sold on eBay, at garage sales, etc?
— Judgment call. I’m thinkin’ this one could generate heated debate.
5. How should we handle it when a client comes to us to return product that is (a) expired and/or (b) they didn’t buy from us? How can we send them to 1-800-marykay without alienating them?
– a. If the customer bought it from me a year or more ago, it has now “expired” and she wants to return it, I give her the “Mom Look”. I have been known to say, “you bought this from me a year and a half ago (or however long ago it was) and want to exchange it now!?!?!”
– b. I send them to 1-800-MaryKay. I just explain it is company policy for her to do the exchange thru the Company, since she did not buy it from me. Or she can go through the consultant she bought it from, if that consultant is still a consultant. If this alienates that particular “customer”, then it’s highly likely that I don’t want her for a customer anyway.
6. What is our response to clients who ask about this lawsuit or PT or other negative sites or buying on eBay?
– Doesn’t happen very often. Rarely am I asked about ebay. And so far NEVER about PT or/and negative sites. I did have one customer a very long time ago tell me she could buy a particular item on ebay at a huge discount. I’d already facialed her previously, gave her samples, figured out what she wanted to buy and when it fit with her next payday. I returned at the appointed time. She did not buy anything from me. I never heard from her again. No way was I going to match any ebay prices.
RE: ebay, I do explain that there really is no way to guarantee the MK product they buy on ebay. And there is no way to verify that the MK product wasn’t stolen from a consultant, then sold on ebay by the thiefs. We’ve all heard stories about product being stolen. I know the TC and the PTers scoff at such stories. However, I myself almost had my own MK product stolen. On Christmas Eve, UPS delivered my product. My husband was home and heard the UPS man set it inside our locked gate. It was raining and the UPS man had put the box inside a very large plastic bag. As my husband was preparing to go out and bring in the box, he heard another noise. Lo and behold! There was a man, THIEF! Leaning over the gate trying to get a grip on the bag to steal my product! The bag kept ripping. There was another man in a truck who yollered a warning when he saw my husband come charging out of the house with phone in hand. Away ran the thieves! Husband got the license plate number and called 911. These two men were following the UPS truck and stealing the deliveries.
So, it happens. Most people really don’t want to take the chance that they are buying stolen stuff, even MK products.
7. What should we do if we have sold product to a liquidator? Should a consultant call MKC and confess? Would the punishment be less?
– Wow. Glad I’m not in that position and never will be. Those liquidators seem to buy the product from consultants at 1/2 of wholesale. I just cannot wrap my mind around why anyone still a consultant would sell her stuff to a liquadator at 1/2 of w/s. Sheesh. Have a 75% off sale to your existing customers and save yourself the shipping costs. Not to mention the guilty conscience.
(BTW, I think those MK inventory liquidators are the lowest of the lowest bottom feeders. Scum of the earth. Lurking in the shadows just waiting to POUNCE on those who are already down.)
May 16, 2008 at 6:35 pm
mk4me
What I have seen that will continue to amaze me: I have seen the color carrier/inventory suitcase, or the wheeled tote, etc.. things available on MK Connections sell for more on ebay and other sites, than if the person got them on intouch.
If they weren’t a consultant, why would they want the stuff anyway. So once again, it seems this is another poor financial decision.
Why buy something used and pay more for it than if they got it new?
Colleen, as for the Company making money, it seems that they want to put a bad spin on this, but, isn’t that what any Company’s goal is?? I have never heard many starting up a Company with the intent to loose money. If they don’t make it, they are going to go out of business.
I hope MK continues to make lots of money because if they don’t, we won’t.
May 16, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Shades of Pink
1. I recently pitched a bunch of old products. I had no need for them and they weren’t selling. It wasn’t a huge loss to me because I sell enough skin care to keep myself afloat. The things I threw away were old SPF products that were more than 2 years old. I also threw away some old lip glosses. I guess basically, if it’s expired, it’s garbage.
2. The only obligation I feel I have when a team member wants out of MK and wants to eliminate her inventory is to responsibly give her her options. I haven’t had anyone quit and refuse to speak to me. I have had a couple who wanted to quit. I told them they can take advantage of the buyback, but if they think they want to try MK again in the future, they may want to sell off as much as they can at 40% or 50% off to at least break even and not lose their ability to sell MK in the future.
I did have one team member who threw away her entire inventory in frustration. Fortunately, she didn’t have much, but that was rather interesting. She didn’t tell me about it until long after she’d done it. I told her if she decides to get active again (she was thinking about it) to let me know and I will help her all I can–AND I told her to let me know if she is frustrated! I will try to help!
3. I get emails here and there asking for really old product. Most of it is before my MK time so I’ve never even heard of it. I’ve had customers ask me for things that they don’t make anymore and are long since discontinued. In these instances I tell them what we have now that might be close; and if I have never heard of the old product, I tell them I will find out what they might like now.
4. I have contacted MKC about “illicit” MK selling on eBay and otherwise. The one time I did it was when products that were only available to directors at the time were appearing on eBay as well as brand new bonus items. That seemed unfair. I don’t think it is possible to police every instance of MK sales happening on eBay, garage sales, etc. I think we do have a responsibility to ourselves and the company to report anything we feel is going to negatively impact our businesses.
Overall, on the eBay and liquidator issue, I’m with Colleen. I don’t think they are impacting us or MKC dramatically. I, too, think that a lot of section 2, starter kits, totes, old star consultant prizes, MK jewelry, etc. is sold on eBay. I personally know someone who ordered one of the hostess gift totes on eBay. She paid $20 for it. The following week (perhaps it even happened as she was waiting for her eBay purchase to arrive) MKC made more of the totes available at a discount! They were only $8.00 and originally they had only been $10 or $12. She paid double for the eBay bag.
5. When someone has something they didn’t buy from me, I refer them to 1-800 MARY KAY. I don’t feel I’m offending anyone by doing this. If they get offended, they have issues that I can’t address. Now, if they call 1-800 MARY KAY and are told they can’t return the product for whatever reason I may take it off their hands and offer a discount for something else to keep a business relationship.
As for expired products, if they bought it from me, I’ll accept it. The written policy does not say we won’t take it back if it’s expired. I’ll take the loss to keep the long term customer. Fortunately, I have not encountered this problem (yet).
6. No one has ever said anything to me about PT. As far as eBay, I have had people tell me they saw MK on eBay. I tell them where they buy their MK is their business, but I would like to have their business. I also tell them that if they do purchase from eBay, it is hard to say how old the product is and how it’s been stored. Of course, I also remind them it is not covered by our 100% guarantee. I have only lost one customer to eBay. And that is OK with me!
7. I’ve not sold product in any way that violates my agreement. I imagine MKC will send warning letters to any consultants they identify who have participated in such activities and remind them they are in violation of their agreement and if they are caught in this type of behavior again it could result in termination. That is speculation based on how I have heard MKC handles other agreement violations. Perhaps it will be dependent upon how often and how many times a particular individual has participated in such activity. Again, just speculation, but I am doubtful that MKC is going to go down the list and send a myriad of termination letters; but what do I know, really?
There’s my 7¢!