Colleen, one of my loyal readers and contributors, has pointed us to a fabulous post about market saturation–and other sales issues as well. Thank you, Colleen!!
Please go here to read this great article, and I suggest bookmarking the site for future information!
My favorite line is “. . . excuse makers are more interested in “Not failing,” than in succeeding. “
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April 29, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Duh
I don’t know, maybe I’m dumb or something (highly probable), but I don’t understand market saturation. How does something as disposable as make up ever saturate a market? I mean, I buy a different brand of blush almost every single time I buy blush. It’s not like I’ve chosen one brand of blush and that’s it for me for the rest of my life.
Explain it to me, Me. Right now. I know you’ve got nothing better to do.
April 29, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Me
Anon, another of your comments (a GREAT one, I might add) went to the spam filter, I approved it and it disappeared. I am so sorry–is there any way you can recreate it? It was wonderful and I don’t know what the heck happened to it.
Duh, you make me laugh–thanks so much for that.
I think you have a valid point. As long as there are products out there of any brand, consumers have a choice. As far as Mary Kay goes, I learned a valuable lesson a long time ago from my director. She said people will buy from whom they want. As long as we practice the Golden Rule and don’t TRY to take someone’s customers, we’re good. If the customer chooses to purchase from five different consultants, then she will.
But my best is that she will continue to do business with the one who services her in the best way.
In Anonymous’ lost comment she mentioned that there is always new business. Even if five consultants lived in a row on a street, they will have their own circle of friends, family, work contacts and a myriad of other people in their lives. I’ve never understood that saturation thing. We have no territories.
April 29, 2008 at 10:21 pm
foreverpink
the other thing is, that there may be a lot of people who have signed up to do MK, but how many of them are really working there business. So that means that all the women that arent being properly serviced are still waiting for a consultant.
April 30, 2008 at 8:06 am
colleen
Forever pink made a great point!!!! If every consultant (myself included) were to keep and service their customers maybe we would be saturated but its not going to happen!! When I think of the MILLIONS of people and the number of restaurants out there (well there is room for more) You have Italian and fast food, and southern cooking and more. We have skin care and color cosmetics and since there are TONS of color cosmetics I KNOW we have not cornered the market on skin care. Cheers!
April 30, 2008 at 9:24 am
Darci Consultant
Ok, let’s see if I can recreate my other comment that was lost using my new name on here - Darci Consultant. I’m no longer “anonymous.”
This was a great article and a must read . . .
He’s right. Many people are so focussed on not failing (or appearing to have not failed) that they refuse to take responsibility. But I see this happening not just in MK, but in all businesses and in all aspects of life. I mean think about the old excuse of “my dog ate my homework.” That’s not taking responsibility for the fact that the kid failed to do their homework, that’s placing the blame on the dog. Of course, there are sometimes legitimate reasons why something can’t be done, but those are different from excuses.
When I think about PT, I think about the “excuses” they use over there for why none of them failed.
They didn’t fail . . . they were recruited by an unethical director/recruiter.
They didn’t fail . . . the market is oversaturated.
They didn’t fail . . . someone else failed to train them.
They didn’t fail . . . they had no idea that MK (or any business) is a skills based business and business (like money) doesn’t simply grow on trees for you to just pluck off as you see fit.
They didn’t fail . . . they knew no one.
They didn’t fail . . . they were duped into ordering and ordering and ordering more and more inventory when they weren’t’ selling to begin with because no one wanted this stupid “drek.”
They didn’t fail . . . MK products suck and are overpriced (NOT my opinion, but something we’ve all read over there).
They didn’t fail . . . MK had the audacity to constantly change the compact every 14 years.
They didn’t fail . . . MK as a business model is doomed to failure (which begs the question, why if it is a doomed business model would you ever sign up to be an IBC?).
They didn’t fail . . . the economy sucks.
I could go on regurgitating (sp?) their “excuses” but they’re simply excuses. If they took personal responsibility, they would say “I never should have become a Mary Kay Consultant in the first place because I didn’t want to do the work” or something similar, but they’ll never say that. I don’t mean to pick on PTers here. All excuse makers are the same in that regard. They fail because they refuse to take personal resonsibility.
As a successful MK Consultant, I run into challenges, but I overcome them.
Do I think the market is oversaturated? I live in CHICAGO. There are a gazillion consultants here. BUT I get out of my house everyday and find ways to meet women. I open my mouth (appropriately, I do not stalk) and am always pleasantly surprised to discover women who’ve never used MK or they’ve lost their consultant for some reason. Too many consultants don’t take care of their clients, so their clients show zero loyalty. If we all treat our clients as the finest treasures, they’ll never leave us and we’ll have huge businesses.
Does the economy suck? Yep. It does. It kills me to pay $4 for a gallon of gas. I clip coupons and find other ways to save money. That said, I’ve sold almost $1000 per week all month. And I haven’t run sales. Women want our products. They may not be able to afford a new spring wardrobe, but they can afford a couple new lipsticks. They have to look good and they know it. And they want quality products.
Are my clients up in arms over the new compact? There will always be people who are resistant to change, but when I show it to them with my excitement about it and explain that it’s been 14 years (that’s 1994!) since we had a compact overhaul, they love it. They love the colors and the compact. And they’re buying it. I’ve almost achieved the sell 45 compacts challenge (sold, not just bought from MK).
Do people tell me “no thanks.” ALL THE TIME. So what?
Did I know a ton of women when I started? NOPE. I knew some and I followed what I was taught about booking classes from classes. And then 2 years after I started I moved across country when I literally knew not a soul. And I have built my business for almost the last decade.
Is my director perfect? Nope. Sometimes we have disagreements, but this is my business. If I want training and to learn the skills it takes to be successful, it’s up to me. The old adage about “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink” totally applies to MK and training. Directors hold meetings and trainings, but they can’t make us take advantage of it. If we want to be successful, we need to take advantage of all the training available (meetings, InTouch, etc.) and get out and practice. If you don’t get along with your director, don’t whine, become an adoptee.
I apologize for this being so long, but you know, my computer wouldn’t let me stop typing. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it.
April 30, 2008 at 9:39 am
Darci Consultant
I have one more thought about this whole compact/color change that we hear constantly on PT as a reason for their failure.
I don’t have a ton of old color left. Why? Because I listened at Seminar last summer and paid attention to the Countdown to Color and started thinning out my lipsticks, cheek & eye colors last fall. Today, I can proudly say that I have fewer than 10 of the discontinued lipsticks left (that’s 10 total, not multiples of 10 different colors), I am 100% out of many eye colors with just 1-2 of less than 10 colors left, and I have 1-2 of about half a dozen cheek colors left. I have 1 color compact, 1 color pallete, 1 foundation compact and about 6 dual-coverage powder foundations in colors that my clients use all time . I have no discontinued applicators.
How did I move it? Well, I did not heavily discount it. This week (once it was almost all gone) I’m running a sale on it, but I’m only taking 25% off the old stuff. Mostly, I know the colors I sell the most of and when I ran out of colors I rarely sell, I have not been restocking them since last fall.
It’s a matter of saying to ourselves “I don’t want this stuff on my shelves once the new colors are here” and then doing what it takes to move it and being responsible when restocking our inventory.
Oh, darn, there’s that responsibility word again.
April 30, 2008 at 10:04 am
Me
Welcome, Darci
Unfortunately your comments still went to the spam folder (maybe it’s your email? I don’t know) but the good news is they didn’t disappear.
I am so glad you were able to recreate the comments because they are DEAD ON. It all boils down to how much you want something and what you are willing to do to make it work. That and DISCIPLINE and personal responsibility.
I don’t have any compacts or color left either because I planned for it. Correction, I have two whipped cocoa left but I have a customer that will buy those.
April 30, 2008 at 11:21 am
Darci Consultant
My ALL TIME favorite “excuse” from PTers:
They didn’t fail . . . the ONLY way to be successful in MK is to break all the rules and cheat. That’s how all the newbies are doing it.
That is PURE BS. The newbies are successful because they have something the rest of us don’t have as much of: a neverending desire to succeed. Their want and/or need is higher than the rest of ours. They have gotten out there and done the work. Do they work 70+ hours per week? Well, some of them have for 3-4 years (maybe longer) to achieve NSD.
But the fact is that many professions require that kind of dedication for a lot longer. Do you want to be a partner in a prestigious law firm? Guess what? As an associate, you’ve got to work 70-80 hours PER WEEK for most of about 7-10 years. You read that right. And these days, partnership in a major law firm isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Now, there are different levels of partners, so they don’t all have the lifetime guarantee (tenure, if you will) that the old-timers had. And they’re not all equity partners (meaning they don’t all make a portion of the firm’s profits). Many are salaried partners. Want to be a doctor? Well, look at life in med school and your internship and residency. Those are not pretty hours. And once you’re done, there’s no guarantee there either.
Want to be a National in MK? What are you willing to do to get there? How long do you want it to take? If you want it quickly (in the next 3-5 years), what are you willing to do today to make that happen?
Are there cheaters in MK? Yep. But we each have a responsibility to keep them honest. And if there are consultants blatantly breaking the rules, then we need to contact MK. Now that doesn’t mean if you think she’s breaking the rules. That means you KNOW. You have proof.
“Consultant x started her business and 4 years later was an NSD. I haven’t done that so she MUST be cheating.” Nope. Doesn’t cut it. Your jealously doesn’t mean someone else has broken the rules.
If we KNOW someone is violating their consultant agreement, we have an obligation to provide the proof to MKC. They take action. And they take it quickly. That doesn’t mean they always terminate someone. They give the consultant an opportunity to tell her side of the story and come into compliance.
Again, it’s all about personal responsibility.
April 30, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Love4mk
Darci, I’m in Chicago also and am not having problems selling either. Since beginning my business last summer I’ve got 100 purchasing customers. Not just names in a book. And you know, this week, I’m not feeling well, and thus, I’m not working . . . I love choices and being responsible for my choices. Thanks! And welcome!
April 30, 2008 at 3:26 pm
colleen
Love 4 MK my question for you is when you take a break how long does it take for you to make up for that day…do you have to sell twice as much or you keep enough where you dont have to.
April 30, 2008 at 5:26 pm
cocoaariel
Hello. I just found this site, and I find it really interesting. I’ve been a consultant for ~3 years now, and have been waffling between the security of my corporate job and committing to doing the work to go full-time with MK. I know the money, opportunity and freedom available with MK will exponentially outweigh what I can achieve in Corporate America with the same amount of work. I struggle with the satisfaction I get from my job and the very decent wage I make. It’s a security blanket, I know.
Anyway, I was curious to know what “PT” is. Also, how in the world can anyone possibly cheat at MK. You have to make the sales and recruit people to succeed, right?
I have a theory about most of the evil in the world, and that theory is that it is dervied from the innate selfishness of humans. I think there are many people who have been raised or conditioned to acknowledge this tendency and take responsibility for themselves and their actions, but others are so self-focused that they will not make such an acknowledgement b/c it damages their ego, psyche, whatever. In the end, this will only result in pain for them - they will never be really successful or happy, b/c they are always looking for someone or something upon which to displace their failures.
Ok. Off my soapbox now. Last word is that there is absolutely nothing that you cannot do if you want it badly enough and commit to doing the work.
Cheers.
April 30, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Darci Consultant
love4mk,
Congrats to you! With your positive attitude and work ethic, you’ll do great!
I’d be interested in your answer to Colleen also . . .
Even though I wasn’t asked, I’ll answer Colleen’s question as well.
I took today off. I’ve been sick all day. Last day of the month and I am sick. Ugh! I sold about $50 this morning in reorders. Gotta love those reorders. I’m going to be on the phone tonight booking appointments. I didn’t have anything today I had to reschedule, except a product delivery, so I’m good there. I had not planned to work on this weeks end and now I’m going to work 1 day.
I look at taking days off in MK as I would in taking days off in a regular job. At my former corporate America job, it would take me awhile to make-up stuff when I was out sick or just took a day off. Phone calls to return. Emails to return. Work not done. Granted, I had paid leave. But I look at reorders as “paid leave”. They dont’ stop just cuz I’m puking my guts out. I can still answer the phone (I didn’t though) and check email (I have when I felt like it) and put away my order that just arrived. But also, taking time off is important. It’s about balance. And overall, I have a weekly sales, interview, appointment minimum that I have set for myself, so as long as I meet it, I’m good.
April 30, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Me
Cocoaariel, welcome to our site! I am so glad you found us.
If you haven’t found the site that we are referring to, I really hate to direct you to it. It’s horrible and full of the exact type of person you describe above.
Other readers, shall we tell her? Cast your vote.
Cocoaariel, I did a lot of that waffling too so I understand exactly what you mean. I finally just sat down and made a list (I am really into lists) about pros and cons of both MK and my job. Bottom line, I realized that I loved both. I need health insurance as I have some ongoing issues I deal with so that is uber-important and pretty impossible to get on my own that would cover pre-existing. But aside from that, I really enjoy my “day gig”, I’m good at it, they treat me well and I would miss it if I didn’t do it any more. Sure there are some things I don’t love, but overall it’s a great job and I like it.
I have been involved with MK full and part time over the course of about 20 years and I decided that I really didn’t want to be a director at this time, so I could continue to work a pretty large business (I have several hundred customers) and do my regular job too. That’s the great thing about MK, it will fit into your life, especially once you have a good customer base.
But it sounds like you want to move on up the ladder with MK, possibly to directorship and that takes much more of a time commitment than I am obligating myself to right now. If that is true, then you will have to stick to a pretty strict disciplinary schedule for the next few months to get it done. It can be done though, alongside another job and then you can phase out the other job once your directorship is established. (Or your customer base, or whatever your goal is). Talk to your director or other consultants about what is the best way for you to accomplish this, and the readership here is a great resource too.
If you haven’t found it yet, another great site that is run by a director is http://www.pynkmyst.wordpress.com “Myst” is an awesome, go-give director and has some great advice and references to helpful articles. Tell her I sent ya!
April 30, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Me
Darci, I hope you are feeling better!
April 30, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Darci Consultant
Thanks. I’m feeling better now.
Awesome news! Even on a sick day . . . I sold about $50, booked 1 new facial and booked a Mother’s Day Appreciation event with a local restaurant!
April 30, 2008 at 11:15 pm
mk4me
Wow, great posts everyone and, hey gang wanted to say, that I hope everyone had an Awesome and Amazing April. As far as noone wanting Mary Kay and marekt saturation, my unit had the best month we have had since 1998 and just what has been turned in in sales on weekly accomplishment sheets (and we all know most consultants don’t bother turning them in), exceed by far the production from the month. Now is that not an awesome selling unit?? Our real focus is seeing 30 faces a month and the old 3+ 3 + 3, several unit members had monthly sales of over $3000.
This busines does work when you do and you will get out of it what you put into it!
Now I am ready for a Magical and Marvelous May!!!!
May 1, 2008 at 9:44 am
Love4mk
Hi all, still sick here.
Colleen, thank you for your question. I think this is the first time I’ve ever had a question directed to me on this site (except for the yahoo who came on once and told me I was ridiculous for wanting the red jacket . . . she never came back to address my response!) So, anyway, thank you. I feel very “official” now.
First of all, I am not a FT consultant. My goal every month is to pull in a minimum of $400 profit for our family. I did so for April. So today, in between blowing my nose and hacking, I will get on the phone, book appointments, get on Mother’s Day Orders (I feel like Mother’s Day is earlier this year), follow up with people etc. My goal, every week, is $300 in sales. I made it last week. This week . . . yes, I’ll need to play catch up for MY GOAL. I also booked a phone nterview for tonight with someone who ASKED ME TO HEAR MORE. So, for a Part Time consultant (I just can’t use the abbreviate “PT”) I’m doing ok.
Do I want more?
Yes. I currently have 2 team members and would love for Mary Kay to take more a bigger role in my life. My goal by Seminar is to be a Team Leader.
“you keep enough where you dont have to”
I’m not sure, Colleen, if you are asking whether I keep enough funds held back so that I can afford a day off, or do I keep enough inventory on hand. I don’t have a huge amount of inventory on hand. Maybe $3000 (retail). Which, honestly, isn’t enough. I have a great sister consultant who trades with me often. It’s a good thing I have her in my life.
So today, I’ll be getting on the phone and kicking it into Mother’s Day high gear. I WILL hit my $300 goal. I will have at least two interviews, and I will continue to work my business my way. No excuses.
Please let me know if I answered your questions . . . I’m in a sinus fog. Not a pink fog.
May 1, 2008 at 10:27 am
Laura R
I have a question? What year were the platinum compacts introduced? I joined MK in 2003 and thought they were relatively new. Figured one of you may know.
Also, regarding the spike in sales - I think that has a LOT to do with people stocking up on Section 1 Discontinued (of which, there is hardly anything left) and the purchase of new product.
May 1, 2008 at 10:54 am
Me
Laura, you joined in 2003 and had a blog in 2005 bashing MK already? Wow–you weren’t in very long were you?
I’m not sure when the platinum compacts were introduced but I think it was late-90s. Rebecca would know and Darci probably would too. I believe they used the same shape as the pink ones did though, so it wasn’t as much of an all-out change as it is now.
I haven’t seen a SPIKE in sales. My sales are always pretty high, but they do tend to go up (although “spike” isn’t a word I would use) when the new Look books come out. I don’t have to make followup calls for the most part at that time–they call me. I haven’t had much of the stocking up of discontinued stuff either–I have been moving that really well in the last six to eight months. All my customers knew of the impending changes. They are now excited to see the new things and I have been selling it.
May 1, 2008 at 11:19 am
Darci Consultant
Laura R . . .
I became a consultant in 1998 and we had the pink compacts with the oblong eye colors and cheek colors. It was my understanding then as now that those compacts came out in 1994 when the change was made from pink square compacts with rectangle cheek & eye colors to the pink compacts with oblong cheek and eye colors.
The platinum compacts were introduced in the summer of 2002. You may be thinking “ha! there was a huge compact change more recently than 1994,” BUT the difference is that the switch from pink to platinum was simply a color switch. ALL the eye colors sold since 1994 fit into the new platinum compacts. AND ALL the eye colors sold from 2002-the currently discontinued products fit into the pre-2002 pink compacts. I have clients who are still using those pink compacts that were discontinued in 2002 because they like them and never felt a need to switch to platinum.
So, you can see, there has not been a major compact change since 1994.
As for a spike in sales. In March, I sold about $3000 retail and in April I sold almost $4000. My clients have not been “stocking up” on discontinued products. They have been buying new compacts and colors (some multiple compacts), subtle tanning lotions, skin care, the limited edition Mother’s Day gifts and more. Some of those same clients who I’ve just seen in April (and bought new compacts and colors) have already booked appointments for mid-June when the rest of the colors are out. That said, probably 3/4 of my business in April was NEW CLIENTS.
As I’ve said before, I look at reorders as my “paid leave.” When I set my personal sales goals for each week/month/quarter, it is always based on NEW BUSINESS, NOT reorders. My reorders are the gravy.
I now have a question for you . . . If you’re not in MK anymore, why are you speculating as to why sales are so good right now? And where do you get your statement that it has “a LOT to do with people stocking up on Section 1 Discontinued (of which, there is hardly anything left)”? Have you been on InTouch lately? I just checked InTouch and only 6 of all the eye colors and 4 of all the cheek colors are out of stock. How do you know what is left?
May 1, 2008 at 11:44 am
colleen
Sales have a tendency to go up near the end of the Seminar year because of the big push.
May 1, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Fighting Fatigue
I joined in 2001 and they were still pink at that time. I believe they switched to platinum around 2002.
May 1, 2008 at 2:19 pm
crystal
I am currently a personal use consultant and I have a question. What do you know about the compact pro that is due to come out in the fall? I saw the post of the mailer that is coming out in the summer, but it was not a complete shot of what it can hold other than the 3 squares of color or powders, etc. What else will it hold?
May 1, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Laura R
Darci - I could say “Ha!” about a lot of things, but not the compact issue
although I apologize for missing the “major change vs minor change” point.
When I commented on the spike in sales, I was simply giving some common sense insight on what mk4me mentioned (quote)”… my unit had the best month we have had since 1998 and just what has been turned in in sales on weekly accomplishment sheets (and we all know most consultants don’t bother turning them in), exceed by far the production from the month.”
Since the product DID change shape (a major change) it just makes sense (to me) that people would buy what they liked before it went out of stock and buy the “new stuff”. Least, that’s what my group of women did. I checked InTouch about a week ago for a friend of mine who wanted some of the old cream-to-powder, but Section 1 Discontinued only had a few items left compared to what was there a few months ago.
Me - Actually, I was writing about MLM’s before 2005 and my site wasn’t to simply “bash MK”, but to share what I did wrong; ie, “take responsibility” as you say and share my story with others so they would not make the same poor choices I did.
May 1, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Me
So you are still a consultant, Laura. Isn’t THAT interesting.
Crystal, I have not seen the Compact Pro “in person” and have only seen the picture posted on this site. The directors may have more information about that–MK4ME, do you know?
May 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Davida Roth
I am “Davida Roth”, the consultant who posted the original question to Mr.Greshes, I posted that question to him in answer to the following post that he’d written. I shared this post with consultants on another message board and was roundly attacked. I am so glad to know that the women here get what Mr. Greshes was trying to say. BTW, Do Raisenberry , Colleen and LG have aliases on other Boards? One that I used to visit regularly has been turned into a war zone with certain posters always directing us to visit PT and providing links to articles there. Just wondering. Here is the first article by Mr.Greshes. It’s also very good.
A Recession Is Coming And I Can’t Wait!
Posted on Friday, January 18 by Registered CommenterWarren Greshes in Sales, Customer Service, Change, success, Client Relationships, Competing, prospecting, follow up, rant | Comments5 Comments
If you’ve been following the economic news lately, you pretty much hear nothing but doom and gloom. Energy prices climbing; the housing market continues to fall; the dollar is weak; economic growth in the fourth quarter climbed but at a much slower rate due to weak holiday sales; the consumer spending binge seems to be slowing; and then, as I write this, I see on my newsreader “Inflation rate is worst in 17 years.”
All I can say to that is, “What a perfect time to do business!” Now before you start filling out the commitment papers, let me tell you something; there is no better time to do business than during a down economic period and for one simple reason: most of your competition has given up. It is my belief that during down economic periods or recessions, salespeople stop selling long before customers stop buying.
Sure there might be less business out there, and, most likely, the size of the average sale might decrease; but, with less people chasing the business, it will be a lot easier for you to get what’s out there. It is the perfect opportunity for each and every one of you to go out there and grab market share.
One thing we know about the economy is that no matter how bad it may get (and I don’t think it will be that bad. Remember, good news doesn’t sell), the economy always comes back. If you capture market share when business is down, you’ll be perfectly positioned to explode your business and crush your competition when things turn around.
It is so critical for you to be more visible than ever to your clients and prospects, because of the perceptions you create. During good times, if your clients and prospects don’t see you for a while, they just assume you’re busy. But if they don’t see or hear from you during tough times, they just assume you’re gone.
The average to poor salesperson is not looking for business: they’re looking for an excuse and a recession is a great excuse. They can go see one prospect or client who will tell them, “Business is tough right now, we’re not buying,” and turn that into “Nobody’s buying.” You see this way they can’t actually fail. They can tell their manager, “I’ve been out there. Business is bad, nobody’s buying.” Their ass is covered. Of course, they never do succeed: which is what it’s all about.
Don’t you just love it when people say, “Nobody’s buying?” What the hell does that mean? The United States has a 13 TRILLION dollar economy. If it went down 10%, which is unheard of and would cause panic in the streets, there would still be 11.7 TRILLION dollars of economic activity going on: Somebody’s buying something.
Do yourself a favor, don’t listen to the negativity: let your competition do that. Just go out there and show up. Keep talking to prospects and clients and keep asking for the sale. Lot’s of companies will be buying and you might be the only salesperson out there who’s actually selling.
May 1, 2008 at 9:09 pm
mk4me
In response to LR -
We had the best month in a long time because my unit members have been booking like crazy and selling like crazy. Did you see that I stated, their sales (retail sales to clients) far exceeded our production.
Now common sense says to me, if my unit members are not overstocked and sell lots of product, they are going to need to order more of it to continue selling. Hence, the more they sell, the production will go up too.
I have been seeing $400, $500 and up classes, huge facial, loads of consultants having $2000 + in sales per month to consultants.
My consultants are not hoarding old product, they are selling new product. We have been working all year on being prepared for the switch and because of logical planning they are not sitting on a load of product that they can not move and have embraced the new and so have all of the clients.
It is all in running this as a business and making sound busines decisions.
So if one wants to believe no one wants to book home parties and noone wants Mary Kay, let them go on believing that. That just leaves more clients for those of us that love our business and our products.
Perhaps some of the whiners I read that say that they can’t book and noone wants Mary Kay may have more to do with the fact that the people they are asking may not care to work with that person because of their personality, attitude, etc…. than the fact that they do not want to have a home party or they do not like Mary Kay.
May 1, 2008 at 9:10 pm
mk4me
oops…to clients, not consultants….
May 1, 2008 at 10:32 pm
kahni kahnie bo bonnie
Hi Me!
I’ve got a question for you merely out of personal curiosity: With your “several hundred customers”, has that ever been enough to get you into the MK Court of Sales?
I maybe put 2.5 hours a week in to my MK biz and just celebrated my 15th MK anniversary, which keeps my customer base steady at around 100. I’ve got a new hankerin’ for earning Queen’s Court in 2009 and just wanted your 20-years of wisdom, if you don’t mind…
Cheers!
~K
May 2, 2008 at 8:04 am
colleen
Davida I dont have any other aliases on these boards on the Yahoo boards I do have a name but Id rather not say….and no Im not a director just so you know. I dont post on the Yahoo boards that much though.
May 3, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Laura R
Me - Nope, I am officially NOT a consultant - I don’t know what you’d call me, but I still service a handful of faithful customers (and I think I’ve mentioned that many times). I have several friends who I help keep their numbers active by letting my “former customers” place orders under them every quarter.
In the past few months, we’ve placed several hundred dollars in wholesale orders and get this: I got really EXCITED about the cute little microdermabrasion travel promo set so I ordered it and gave the extras (as a “thank you”) to some of my loyal customers even though they did not order this time (they ordered in Jan). It was fun and I really adore some of the little promo sets they offer. I CAN
mk4me - It’s refresyhing
May 3, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Laura R
Oopsie - I hit the submit button accidently.
To finish:
I CAN get excited about some of the new products and I can tell you honestly, where MK is concerned, it is good to be rid of the bad and like what I did at first, when I first joined. Perhaps that doesn’t make sense to anyone, but it makes sense to me and I will continue to be on the net to warn others about what not to do based on the mistakes I made and behavior I witnessed first hand and to support those who are enjoying their business and actually selling the product and providing service to their customer base.
mk4me - It’s refreshing to hear that your unit is SELLING! In my area, and this is a fact, the main thing sold was inventory. So, to hear that a unit’s sales jumped due to the energy of the unit, that’s great. I was simply commenting on a reason why it could have been increased and did not mention my insight to dismiss anyone’s efforts or point a finger to anyone else here about what they do or do not do regarding their own businesses.
May 3, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Laura R
I would like to add, not to advertise, but to make a point that I have had an active consultant group since 2005 also - we’ve ALWAYS supported active consultants who want to do business the right way, regardless of their status. Colleen can vouch for that. *waving to Colleen* dare i say “smooches” lol!
May 4, 2008 at 12:40 pm
mkhonesty
Oh yeah, the market’s so saturated that my wife only sold $3,613 (net sales) in April. For those of you in Rio Linda, that’s a Ruby Star wholesale in one month.
May 4, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Shades of Pink
Back in January I worked a table at a bride fair with 3 other consultants. I can’t speak for the others, but I obtained about 36 leads that day. Out of those, 7 already have consultants. If it were truly a saturated market, the number of people who already have a consultant would be much higher. Also, I knew many of the consultants of these 7. I simply forwarded the info to them and let them know to follow up.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that we are looking for people who want what we have. We can’t force people to want what we have. It’s a process of elimination and we are the ones who have to do the work.
I work my business very part-time and I am still able to find new customers and make sales when I need extra money.
May 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm
mk4me
LR - please don’t take this wrong, (I am far from perfect) but if you did enjoy some of MK (doing it the right way) but then fell to influences of those doing it wrong, why would you not make a stand and continue as a consultant doing it the right way setting an example for others instead of (see your statement below) helping others doing it the wrong way? I really am serious asking this, I am not “picking on you” or pointing a finger but if you know people that acheive goals ie: car, directorship, etc… with “fake” consultants - you must realize that they will not be able to maintain these levels the way it should be done. From all the reading I have done, it seems that the people that get in financial trouble are the ones that “make it happen” or “buy it” the let’s face reality. Just because one can earn the car or a unit, doesn’t mean that magical production is going to happen because one wants it. Debutting with a unit of 30 with only a handful of real consultants, doesn’t mean that the day after you become a director, they “fake” ones are going to start working. So how would one expect the production to happen??
Requirements on numbers are set because it realistically would take a group of 30 real (working) consultants to do what is required to produce the production needed. If it would only take 10, the 30 wouldn’t be a requirement. So it seems that you by “helping” others maintain their numbers, that you are aiding in setting them up for failure and condoning the very thing that is wrong with the system, no??
LR says:
Nope, I am officially NOT a consultant - I don’t know what you’d call me, but I still service a handful of faithful customers (and I think I’ve mentioned that many times). I have several friends who I help keep their numbers active by letting my “former customers” place orders under them every quarter.
May 4, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Me
I have had a very busy weekend and have not responded to Laura R’s comment but I have been planning to. Now is as good a time as any.
MK4ME, Laura and I have sort of a history so I will preface my comment with that piece of history. You are probably not aware of all that but in addition, you are kinder in many respects than I.
Laura is a perfect example of what we try to convey on this site. She contributes to keep people active yet they are not “real” consultants. She is the reason why people like Tracy can throw around numbers about how many consultants there are and then say no one is making money. It’s because people like Laura activate people but they are not real consultants and they are not making money–nor are they trying to.
I find it pretty hilarious that Laura is so holier than thou about being ethical yet she does the very thing she preaches against. And in addition to that, she contributes to Mary Kay’s coffers even while she attempts to make a name for herself by bashing the company and those that are a part of it.
She is a legend in her own mind on the Survivors board (is that thing still around, by the way?) and rules it like a dictatorship. Yet she purchases product through fake consultants.
That’s rich.
May 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm
mkhonesty
Re-reading Laura R’s post (5/3/08 @ 2:05 pm) after reading Me’s post above, I think I’ve got this straight.
Laura R is a former consultant who has “former customers”. Laura R has friends who are barely-active consultants (ordering the minimum $200 every three months to maintain “active” status). Laura R works with these friends by collecting “orders” from her “customers” and consolidating them with her friends, kind of like someone in the trucking business who consolidates shipments on different trucks so that the trucks will be full.
It sounds like Laura R’s “customers” are paying more than wholesale, because Laura R is buying PCP premiums as gifts for them.
So Laura R is making some pin money that she doesn’t have to show as income because she is not a consultant. Of course, neither can she take any deductions for expenses. Her friends are dependent on Laura R for helping them make their minimum $200 orders every three months.
BTW, there is no requirement to place a minimum $200 order every three months. The consultant’s status simply changes to Inactive, which only means that she stops getting the Applause mailing and will not receive any commissions on any personal team members’ wholesale orders. This may be the real reason these friends who are consultants are maintaining active status. They are personal use or hobby consultants who have a hot shot personal recruit, for whom MK Inc is sending a commission check on each month. Kind of like having an investment that pays a monthly dividend.
After 6 months, the consultant’s status becomes “terminated”, which still means very little. The big change is that if the consultant does not place an active order by the end of the 6th month after her last active order, then she loses all personal team members forever. Not until the end of her 12th month after the month of her last active order does the consultant really terminate and must submit a new agreement ($20 second-chance agreement, plus tax & shipping). For example, if Suzy Consultant places an active (min $200 Whsl) order in January 2008, then she has all the way to January 31, 2009 to place another active order and not have to resubmit an agreement.
I wonder if any of these “customers” are receiving PCP catalogs. I doubt it, because they would have to come from one of these barely-active consultants, unless Laura R was buying Look Books from one of these barely-active consultants and delivering/mailing them to her “customers”.
Laura’s “customers” have been conditioned to expect to have to wait for their products, so they either place them far in advance of when they actually need them, or accept the delay. To me, this is ass-backwards customer service. Instead of the consultant serving the customer, the customer meets the demands of the consultant. I have to assume that Laura R’s “customers” are paying up front for the products, perhaps even a month in advance, because I can’t see Laura R or any of these barely-active “consultants” (aka hobby or personal use only) risking any of their money for a less than sure thing sale. Laura R’s “customers”have been conditioned to think that MK is just like Avon, Pampered Chef, Princess House, Longaberger, or any other direct-sales/catalog business where you have to wait for your product. Perhaps they live in some out-of-the-way town that still has a Sears Catalog Store, so they are used to planning days or weeks ahead.
It is because of schemes like this that I have thought that the minimum order level for active status needs to be raised to $600 every month or at least a total of $600W over a running 3-month period. It would severely cut the ranks of customers becoming personal use consultants, and of consultants recruiting someone with the tease of just buying your own products. I have no hard data to back me up (only MK Inc knows these numbers), but I strongly suspect that at least half of the new consultants each year either never place a wholesale order. Someone has told them that becoming a MK consultant is like joining Sam’s Club or Costco. When they find out that the minimum order size to receive the wholesale discount is $200W ($400 retail), they never place the order and of course, blame MK, not the consultant, for tricking them. I doubt that most of them even send back their Starter Kits, because it costs about $30 to UPS it back to the MK.
Personal Use consultants also poison the water for real consultants, because they often sell product to family and friends at large discounts or even wholesale. When asked about MK, these friends and family tell other people not to pay full or near-full price from a real consultant, but just “get a deal” from the PU consultant. The only way to compete with a PU consultant who is poisoning the market is to provide exceptional service with no waiting for product. We have customers who have flat-out told us that they used to get their products from their mom/aunt/etc, but they had to wait for 2 weeks to a month.
Raising the minimum order level also prevents unethical DIQ’s buying their way into directorship, because it raises the cost bar.
A person who knows nothing of Laura R’s website would see nothing unethical about Laura R’s actions. She is simply taking advantage of the situation: customers who will place their orders through her and wait for them, and consultants who will accept her orders thereby keeping her in business. However, as ME states, Laura R is talking out of both sides of her mouth. From the first line on the main page of her blog, http://www.thepinkingshears.com, “to those who feel they have been “stung by the bee”". Laura R positions herself as Paul, formerly Saul, a Roman citizen who say the light, and preaches the holy gospel against the evils of MLM’s, in which she includes MK. Laura R is no different than a politician who proposes raising sin taxes (taxes on alcohol and tobacco) in order to help fund insurance for the poor, while conveniently ignoring that many of the poor adults with these children will be the ones paying the higher taxes. In the same vein, politicians who suggest raising taxes on the big nasty oil companies neglect to mention the fact that the taxes will simply be rolled into higher prices at the pump. It’s a simple way to raise money for pet projects or to raise the price of fuel in order to change driving habits (ala European gas taxes), without drawing the ire of the electorate by raising the gas tax directly.
Consultants: do not go out of your way to recruit personal use consultants. You are reducing your own profit and gaining a headache. It may look good, “Congratulations on your new team member”, but a PU consultant is not a team member. Sure, we’ve all heard and read the stories of the PU consultant who went on to become a successful director or even a NSD. MK Ash cautioned consultants not to prejudge prospects, but that does not mean bottom-fishing. If you have a day job, or your husband, brother, sister, etc does, ask yourself/them whether you/they would base a hiring decision on the new hire’s ability to receive the company discount. Even worse, there are consultants who either pay for their new team member’s Starter Kit with the understanding that the new team member will pay them back from her first class(es), or tell their new prospective team member to go get $200 retail in sales, and we’ll use $100 for your agreement. A few years ago, MK Inc offered half-price Starter Kits. I can’t speak for other units, but in my wife’s unit, less than 5% of those consultants ever did a wholesale order, period. This is very similar to the problem with offering home mortgages with little or nothing down. With no “skin in the game”, people see no reason not to walk away. The same with MK: if a new consultant does not pay for her own Starter Kit (and her own product!), then what has she got to lose by walking away. How many of you have bought toys/cars for children/teenagers, only to see them ignore, misuse or neglect to maintain their gift.
‘Nuf Said.
May 5, 2008 at 6:08 am
Me
AbsoLUTEly right!
Laura R’s comment above–her whole demeanor really–reminds me of that Cindi Lauper song, “True Colors.”
May 5, 2008 at 8:41 am
Darci Consultant
MKHonesty, you are so right about PU consultants!
In my experience, PU consultants are MORE work for less money for the recruiter than the active working consultants.
How?
1. PU Consultants constantly want to trade products. I refuse to do it EXCEPT once limited-edition items and discontinued items are unavailable. I manage my inventory to only keep what my clients use and when you want to trade for 3 TW cleansers it causes me significant inconvenience. Target will never call Wal-mart and ask to trade for the Glad Trash Bags they’ve run out of. MK offers this wonderful thing called “Earned Discount Privilege” . . . . USE IT. And don’t tell me you don’t want to pay for shipping. I gotta pay it too. You being cheap isn’t my problem.
2. PU Consultants rarely attend training and don’t read Applause or the newsletter and so are constantly asking questions that are covered in other places. This takes a lot of time of the director or recruiter.
3. PU Consultants frequently don’t want to be bothered to learn InTouch . . . see #2 above about questions.
4. As a recruiter, earning 4, 9, 13 or 26% on a $200 WS order even every 3 months is a significant loss from earning 50% profit on every retail sale, especially if the PU Consultant was a good customer.
5. If the PU Consultant was previously a regular hostess or source of referrals, that dries up too.
Sure, it’s a good deal for the PU Consultant. But I also find that it’s the PU Consultants who get the worst attitudes about MK. MK IS NOT A WHOLESALE BUYING CLUB so we shouldn’t treat it like it is.
I know I’ve just sounded harsh, but let me be clear. I’m not talking about the consultants who start out working their businesses and as life happens, MK takes a different role in their lives. I’m talking about the consultants who come in with zero intention of ever holding an appointment and only come in to get their product at a discount.
All of that said, one of the beauties of MK is the flexibility it offers. In my own business, there was a time when I had to scale my business back. I had a significant client base (over 100 active clients) and only serviced them for about 9 months. I did not look for new clients and was not holding classes. I’m sure I lost clients during that period of time because I could not offer my clients the service they had come to expect. I am eternally grateful for the clients who stuck with me, but I also deserved to lose those clients who left.
If you’re not treating your clients like treasures, don’t be surprised if they leave.
May 5, 2008 at 8:59 am
Laura R
LOL! Wow is all I can say. You guys really have some active imaginations - this is a very interesting read, especially the analogy about Paul/Saul and truckers?!- c’mon! LOL! Dictatorship?! Double LOL! Sheesh. It’s always entertaining to read what you guys can come up with. Almost as funny was the comment about Tracy being jealous of your MK business. NOT. I would bet real money she makes more from her website in a week than many consultants make in a month selling MK.
To mk4me - I could have stayed in MK, but I chose not to at that time. While I was a director, we did not push selling “inventory” and I was up front with my consultants and new recruits about the business. Cheating is rampid in MK and will always be. I do not believe in the “do it faster” way at all. To me, that only provides temptation to “cut corners” - been there, done that, saw it, repented and wrote my story, that’s all.
Many a director build their initial units with people to “help” them finish and sometimes those “angels” as they call them, become successful consultants. Our NSD signed up as “personal use”, by her own admission.
Not sure what you mean by “fake consultants” - to me, a consultant is a consultant is a consultant and no matter how many or few customers you have, you are still a consultant. I understand, however, that maybe you dismiss those who don’t sell x amount as “fake”. Not sure if I’ve ever read a definition of consultant - the marketing plans I read do not define “real” or “fake”, they only say “it’s your business”, you do what you want with it.
87% of women in MK (data from MK Leadership) are working other jobs and some join to get discount and offer discount to friends. Our group does not make any profit whatsoever (hello mkhonesty!), we sell at wholesale to one another and have fun with it. Period.
I bought the PCP gift set because I could and I enjoy it and I wanted to be “go give” to people who have ordered from us.
May 5, 2008 at 9:06 am
Me
I am at work and don’t have time to comment on every part of Laura’s comment. I encourage others to do so, however.
The one thing I DO have time for and just can’t ignore is this. Laura, Please look up the word “rampid”. I don’t think it exists. I believe the word you are looking for is “rampant.”
You and your group talk about “fake” consultants all the time. Like saying people “recruit” their dogs, their cats, sign up people without their knowledge, etc. According to you and the likes of you, “fake” consultants are all over the place.
And I still say that you are doing exactly what you preach against. You can ignore that all you want to or justify it however you like, but it’s the truth.
I do agree with you on one point though and that is Tracy makes money on her site. She lies about it, as she does everything else, but she makes more money off that site than she currently does with her “practice” of accounting. And she does “practice” accounting because I could never imagine her making real money off of that. She is the worst excuse for an accountant I have ever seen.
May 5, 2008 at 9:27 am
foreverpink
I agree with some of the comments about PU consultants. Because PU consultants are often not invested enough in this business to learn the things they need to learn, they often make poor business decisions and dont know enough to take advantage of the things that could help them. I am often alarmed at the number of consultants who dont know about the Earned Discount Privilege. It can really help when all you need is a few items. Of course you should not run your entire business with it, but it is a nice thing to have when you need it.
The lack of general knowledge that some consultants have is a big part of PT and other “bash MK”sites. I am not saying that it is the only part, but it is a big part. I know there are those in MK who take advantage of others. But if you make it your business to find things out for yourself, read the agreement, get on intouch and find out the way things are supposed to go, the a lot of the bad experiences could be avoided.
May 5, 2008 at 9:35 am
Laura R
Me - oops - sorry about the misspelling. I might have even misspelled misspelled. Sorry.
MK4me - those who cheat do not necessarily lose their directorships quickly. There are long-term cheaters in MK and that’s simply a fact. These same women appear “very successful”, so successful that they are admired for their “hard work” and somehow, over time, they also lost the sense of right & wrong by condoning unethical behavior.
Me - I really don’t know anyone in my area, (nor did I do so) who signed up those cats, dogs, etc. Every one was a REAL person although I have read the stories around the net about signing up those types and that is just horrifying. I’m not certain how they can do it actually, because there are cross-checks in the MK system.
Darci - many of those who do “personal use” are selling product to non-MK people and it is their right to do so. They “own” their business, right?
As I read the comments, it seems like your posters were referring to personal use consultants as “fake”. I could have misinterpreted.
Yeah, I believe Tracy makes a killing off of all her internet endeavors. She is masterful in marketing herself, that’s for sure.
May 5, 2008 at 10:08 am
Me
“There are long-term cheaters in MK and that’s simply a fact.”
Prove it.
May 5, 2008 at 10:57 am
Darci Consultant
Laura R,
I’ve never said Personal Use Consultants shouldn’t sell product and I never said they don’t own their businesses.
But the thing is, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t (with any credibility say) “I’m a business owner” when you just take enough orders a couple times a year to place a $200 WS order and refuse to take responsibility for your actions (or lack of).
As a matter of fact, I think that’s EXACTLY the problem . . . many Personal Use Consultants (not all, but many) DO NOT treat MK as a business that they own. That’s my beef: Personal Use Consultants signed up to be Mary Kay Consultants and what comes with that is some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Oh damn! There’s that Personal Responsibility thing again!
The Personal Use Consultants I know (and some that I have on my team - yep, I have them, despite my strong encouragement that MK is not just for personal use) . . . still want to act like clients. And they cop the attitude of “you’re making a commission off my orders so you owe me.”
I don’t owe you more than I give to consultants who are working their businesses. It’s a 2-way street. Our director offers LOTS of training. Show up. MK mails you Applause. Read it. I send you The Look to help keep you up-to-date. Read it. InTouch is available to you too. Explore it. You can order directly from MK anytime you want. Do so. I invite you to things. Please come.
If you don’t want to sell MK then don’t. I’m not forcing you to do so. In fact, you can stay a customer, be a hostess a couple times a year and send me referrals regularly and I’ll keep you in free (or significantly discounted) product and I’ll give you MORE free product if you refer someone to me who becomes a Qualified Consultant. And that’s beneficial to both of us. BUT if you choose to sell it, then treat it as a business. Just cuz you call it a business, doesn’t mean it is.
A business exists to make money. Do you? Or are you working towards it? Or are you just ordering in bulk?
A business has clients that it services. Do you? Or do you just take orders every 3-12 months and then place an order?
A business owner keeps themselves educated and “up” on the latest knowledge, trends, etc. in their industry. Do you? Or do you just complain all the time?
A business expands its client base. Do you?
A business owner properly maintains their inventory. Do you? Or do you send out emails all the time wanting to trade product with other consulstants?
The IRS has very specific requirement for what is defined as a business. It’s showing a profit for a certain number of years out of the last 5 or something. I don’t know what it is . . . I have been showing a profit for years. My accountant mentioned it to me though. Otherwise, it’s a hobby.
May 5, 2008 at 11:17 am
Me
Darci, if you were directing these questions to Laura (I don’t think you were though), I predict she will come back with her back up screaming that she is NOT making a profit, she is only being Go Give, blah blah blah.
However, you bring up fantastic points about being a business owner, and specifically about being a Mary Kay consultant. Thank you! The personal use practice is one of my pet peeves as well.
Gotta go
May 5, 2008 at 11:27 am
Darci Consultant
Oh you are right, Me. I was not directing these questions directly at Laura R. They were questions in general.
Sorry about the confusion.
But in all seriousness, being go give is wonderful and giving discounts is nice too. But then call it what it is . . . a hobby.
May 5, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Rebecca
I always felt that deliberately recruiting personal use consultants is bad idea. Over my years in MK I’ve seen consultants and directors repeatedly deliberately recruit personal use consultants.
A PU consultant turning into a great seller, a director, or an NSD is the exception, not the rule. I basically recruited myself for the express purpose of getting the product for myself at cost. I actually told my recruiter that I would not recruit or sell, I just wanted it at cost. I was adamant. And yet here I am, the top seller in our unit for years. It took several years.
I’m still opposed to deliberately recruiting personal use consultants. Building on the exception, not the rule, is building on quick sand.
However, as Darci pointed out, consultants can turn into PU consultants due to life, etc., whatever. It is my opinion based on my observations, that this does happen a lot. So, whether we like it or not, we have PU consultants. I suppose some actually fit better into a category of a Hobby Consultant.
Just a couple of years ago I heard a top-selling consultant talk about hobby consultants. She said if you are in MK as a hobby, then just don’t expect to make money. You don’t make money on hobbies. If you want to make money, then treat your MK as a business. If you are working it as a hobby, then don’t whine about not making any money.
IMO we will always have the personal use and hobby consultants with us.
MKHonesty wrote, “It is because of schemes like this that I have thought that the minimum order level for active status needs to be raised to $600 every month or at least a total of $600W over a running 3-month period.”
Ah, but that would put MK, Inc. into a different type of business according to the FTC. There’s this thing in the FTC franchise rule about minimum required ordering and if it is less than $500 or $600 (I don’t remember which) then the company is exempt from the franchise rule. MK, Inc. is exempt from the franchise rule.
One thing I know for sure, I am totally and completely confident that the MK legal/tax/accounting teams know EXACTLY what they are doing. And whatever teams come up with requirements, qualifications, etc. They are not just picking numbers out of the air. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.
May 5, 2008 at 12:12 pm
foreverpink
Its amazing how many consultants treat their business like a hobby, but then dont know the first thing about being a true working consultant and then want to go on and on about it being “my own business”, as if that justifys them when they bend rules, or work MK the wrong way.
Laura R says “many of those who do “personal use” are selling product to non-MK people and it is their right to do so. They “own” their business, right?”
What do you mean by “non-MK people”? Are you referring to customers? If so, then I can understand that. But if you mean Ebay and other discount sites or avenues that are clearly against the agreement, then I would have to say I dont agree. This is what I am talking about. Owning our businesses is not a liscense to do things that we know are against the agreement.
Please clarify if you will, Laura R, about what was meant by non mk people. I am not trying to accuse you of saying something that you did not mean to say. However I do very much disagree with that practice.
I feel this way because when we sell our products to someone who we know is going to sell them to someone else, we have just set ourselves up to be wholesalers so to speak, or worse, the transaction becomes similar to a pyramid scheme in my opinion. I know, I know, the loophole is that those “other” people are not in MK so it somehow does not count, but that does not make it right.
May 5, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Me
“when we sell our products to someone who we know is going to sell them to someone else, we have just set ourselves up to be wholesalers so to speak, or worse, the transaction becomes similar to a pyramid scheme in my opinion. I know, I know, the loophole is that those “other” people are not in MK so it somehow does not count, but that does not make it right.”
It counts for those of us in Mary Kay.
May 5, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Me
I wonder if Laura will answer my request above or any of the subsequent questions asked of her.
May 5, 2008 at 12:21 pm
foreverpink
your are right Me, it does count to us in Mary Kay, but I have heard that excuse used by others as a justification.
May 5, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Rebecca
Me’s comment above, 11:17 a.m., “Darci, if you were directing these questions to Laura (I don’t think you were though), I predict she will come back with her back up screaming that she is NOT making a profit, she is only being Go Give, blah blah blah.”
Laura R’s comment above, 8:59 a.m., “Our group does not make any profit whatsoever (hello mkhonesty!), we sell at wholesale to one another and have fun with it. Period.”
May 5, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Laura R
Here I am ME. Your request can only be answered by me naming names and I’ll simply not do that (for legal reasons) on the internet and I suppose you can assume that I am lying, so that’s why I am not naming names, but it is your right to assume whatever. Never have I named names in the years I have written on the net (at the advice of legal counsel) and will not start now. Hope you can understand that and even if I could, I wouldn’t. People will have to put two and two together. I know what I know and you’ll just have to trust it at that.
Gosh, I hope you never find out about a long-term cheater, you are going to be blooooown away at the reality. I CAN say, however, that those I know who have mastered this have been in for over 20 years. They don’t blink an eye when someone puts their own money in to finish, and dumb me somehow thought it was OK because they said it was OK and have done it for years. My bad. They even take it a step further telling consultants to lie to corp if corp calls randomly asking their new unit members if all the product purchased was with their own money. I was told this and I was also told “you didn’t hear this from me”. This was the day before we got an “integrity” email!
At Seminar, a new director said “this time around, I do not have the money to buy my way”. I never knew, until that moment, that what she did 15 years ago was cheat. Another long-term consultant/director told me on the phone that putting in the amount of money I did (to finish) was “nothing compared to what others had done”.
A very admirable (from appearance, get go and what not) caddy Senior director put in $2000 to finish her directorship and my director old me that “was nothing compared to what others had done” - (I am not repeating myself, these were two separate people speaking of others). I was really surprised to hear that about that particular director because she was a great seller. Oh, my director told me (about her) that it’s ok that she put in that money because she “eventually sold the product”.
Let’s see, the director whom my director referred to about putting their own money in (and she named her name) has been in for about 20 years as well. She’s a caddy driver too.
The gal who came back in to MK after her “sabbatical”, as they called it,(the one who said she didn’t have the money to buy her way) got her directorship this time around as well as the caddy and then became a senior director shortly thereafter. A couple of months ago, I saw a unit newsletter and she was no where to be found on the ladder. POOF! Gone! Didn’t even demote (as many newsletters do with those who left) her to “Team Leader”. So, I don’t know what happened to her, but if you were to see her (on the outside) she reeks success & beauty and I am sure inspired many as she moved up the ladder quickly.
As I’ve always said, build a unit of sellers and you can rest well at nite not having to worry about production or your conscience.
ME - *whispering* i do not make a profit at all.
4-ever pink, Yes, I was referring to the customers as “non-MK” people. In our group, the consultants purchase for their own use and we sell the product to customers at a discount, our discount. It’s a win-win situation for all of us but for someone doing it to make a profit, discounting is not the way to go even though some directors encourage selling your product at 20-30% off from time to time.
May 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Me
Laura, I did not say “tell me a story and not name names”. I didn’t even say “tell me a story.” I said PROVE IT.
You don’t have to prove it on the blog. You can email proof to me. But hearsay is not proof.
May 5, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Laura R
I suppose my first hand eye witness account is not enough for you, so touche (did I spell that right?) LOL! How would you “prove” what someone said to you directly? Enlighten me. I am thinking you are thinking that since what my director TOLD me, what I SAW is not credible since that cannot be PROVED. Okee dokee.
AND, if I had corporate records for the units I speak of (which I don’t) and any other “proof” (in writing) of anything, with all due respect, I would never email you with the information (for my own reasons), but thanks for the offer.
May 5, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Laura R
You work for attorneys, don’t you? Least that’s what I thought. So, tell me - do they put people on witness stands, under oath, to share their “eye-witness” account of things or do they require some sort of “proof” before they will consider them a “witness”?
May 5, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Laura R
…before they will consider them a witness when all they have is their “story”.
May 5, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Me
No good attorney willk ever put a person on a witness stand without PROOF of what they are going to say first. It opens way too many doors for being made a fool or losing a case. Eyewitness accounts are valuable to some extent, however, you can have five “eyewitnesses” take the stand and they can all say different things, but believe they are telling the truth.
And hearsay is never allowed.
Yes, “touche” was spelled correctly.
And Laura, no offense but your first-hand account is not, in the majority of the illustrations you gave above. Someone said this or that to you. Big whoop.
May 5, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Laura R
Yaaaaaay! I spelled it right! Thanks for your grace and mercy with my grammar and punctuation.
I understand about hearsay. And, above, I gave you several accounts of different situations. It would take a great amount of time to write ALL of what I witnessed first hand and what was said to me directly. I figure my director was a “credible” witness since she saw and was told these things first hand. I didn’t realize I was in court - so…
Let me ask you this: How does a “character witness” PROVE anything they say?
May 5, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Me
Oh for God’s sake, Laura, you are the one that brought up lawyers and witnesses, not I. All I asked for was proof and you didn’t give any verifiable proof.
Character witnesses have a variety of ways to prove things they say, just like anyone else. But if they cannot, then it is up to the jury to decide if the witness is, indeed, telling the truth.
May 5, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Darci Consultant
Laura R. . . . Up above, on April 30th I talked about people who cheat and said that we all have a responsibility to contact corporate if we have PROOF that consultants cheat. Me is right . . . what you said above is not proof, it’s not even first-hand knowledge in most cases. Corporate DOES take SWIFT ACTION.
A few weeks ago, I walked into a very popular local business and saw a HUGE display of MK products. Through some very easy research, I found out who the consultant was and I called MKC Legal Department. They told me to put it in writing and they would investigate. I had all my ducks in a row . .. date/time I was there, pic I’d taken on the sly w/ my cell phone, consultant name/number. Within 30 minutes of my email, I received an email back that they would take action. Within 3 days, I had a bcc copy of the letter Legal sent to the consultant outlining her violation and telling her to cease/desist from violating her IBC Agreement. I was in the store last week and the products are gone. She’s still a consultant. Mk did the right thing.
MKC can’t be everywhere. I’m not saying run around and nark on everyone for every little thing that comes out of their mouth, but when you have unimpeachable evidence, as a consultant, we must let MKC know.
I’m honestly not going to doubt that there are cheaters. There are people in every industry who do things that are unethical and succeed because they spend their energy working the system and being so good at deception and lying that they simply weasal their way out when questioned. Of course, if they spent that energy doing it the right way, they’d probably succeed too.
Now I am curious . . . do you think that it’s possible that these stories you’ve heard second hand are really people being jealous of some of the movers & shakers? It’s so much easier to say “Super-star Consultant reached NSD 5 minutes after getting into MK because she was rich when she started and bought her way to the top (or cheated in some other way)” than to say “Super-star Consultant reached NSD 5 minutes after getting into MK because she worked her tail-end off for 5 minutes while all I did was complain the whole time.”
You know, I’ve been in MK 10 years and I look at some of the people who’ve been in a whole lot less time than me and achieved so much and I’m so impressed that their want/need has been so much higher than mine so they HAD to make it work. They had to get out and hold appointments even when they don’t feel like it. They hear “next” when someone says “no.”
Why is it so hard for you to believe that not everyone in MK cheats, Laura?
May 5, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Darci Consultant
Now that I’ve written that whole comment and read what’s been posted since I started it, I realize something.
This is a long-standing debate between personal responsibility vs. excuse makers (or victims) and cheaters vs. non-cheaters in MK. Frankly, these aren’t debates that are unique to MK. They exist all over our culture.
And no one ever wins in these debates because neither side can be convinced.
With personal responsibility vs. excuse makers (or victims), I think this is something that’s learned over a lifetime. And it gets reinforced through our experiences. People who make excuses think life happens to them. People who take responsibility believe they control their destiny.
Cheaters vs. non-cheaters is about cynicism, although I think this can fall roughly along the same lines as personal responsibility vs. excuse makers.
I’m sorry I’ve taken Laura’s bait on this whole debate. I take responsibility for getting heated with her, but I’m done now. I’ve got too much to do to continue this conversation. Don’t misunderstand me, I’ll continue commenting on the blog, but just not about this issue. I’m tired of Laura.
May 5, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Me
Darci, I am tired of Laura too (and have been for years now) so thank you for bringing this to a close. All of your comments have a great deal of merit and I thank you for taking the time to write them.
One more thing to Laura (and everyone else) - I don’t doubt that there are cheaters either, I never have. But don’t complaint about, DO something. Darci did something as she described above and I have too. When I have proof, I tell MK Legal. They act. They are fair, but they act. They do the right thing.
And they do not accept hearsay either, Laura, just so you know. It’s not just court and lawyers that are like that.
While I’m on the subject, I might call Legal and report Laura.
Anyway, one final thing. Darci, I love this: “People who make excuses think life happens to them. People who take responsibility believe they control their destiny.”
May 5, 2008 at 4:16 pm
colleen
Me I know you are not going to like this and if you dont want to post it I respect that. I happen to believe Laura because she runs a civil board and lets people on her Yahoo group speak BOTH sides. Unlike Ms T Coenen who only promotes hatred. I have spoken with L Ryan and she does not hate MK. She did start some of the action when it comes to blogs and people going on the anti MK bandwagon. But LONG ago (and with L Ryans permission) I can post some one ethical directors postings here where she allowed her to share on her board. I would rather not but if it proves that L Ryan is not totally anti MK I will (but only with her permission) Because of the fact that the director in question chose to remain anonymous and work her business she left the board because she had to keep working and she really wanted to help MK women on Lauras board who wanted to stay in. If Laura was not somewhat PRO MK she wouldnt have allowed this.
To my knowledge Laura has not stooped to the antics of which TC has!!
She has also acknowledged this blog along with Pink Lighthouse as being fair and objective. I think that L Ryan doesnt want to give out names because ever since her board started there were directors there who begged Laura not to share their identity and she didnt and she has stuck to that unlike TC who did out a lot of people and her former members that are on DUH’s board. Im not trying to get in the middle here but I have to take up for L Ryan when I say I believe that what she is saying is true. Her feelings for MK the company in no way change my feelings about the company and the product. Im PRO MK and Laura knows that. Laura this is Steph by the way.
May 5, 2008 at 4:20 pm
crystal
Hello to all. I posted recenlty ( a few days ago) about the compact pro. Is there anything on intouch that gives more detail about the compact pro other than the info about the summer 2 mailer with its pictures? I saw somewhere on this site that it will retail for $35, but nothing else. I have looked on unit net and nobody that I have looked at is saying anything about it. Do you guys have any info. Just curious. I am preparing for my next order. Thank you so much for any help.
May 5, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Me
Crystal, what you have seen here is all I know. The Compact Pro will not be available under the mid-September order form, so you have plenty of time.
Colleen, I do not want Laura to post names here, but she needs to stop saying all this stuff with no proof. I have proven myself to be trustworthy (I think so anyway) and if she has proof then she can tell me off the blog and ask for confidentiality. As everyone knows, I work for lawyers and if I didn’t know how to keep my mouth shut, I wouldn’t have a job.
Or she could leave me out of it completely and report to MK corporate. That’s what should have been done a long time ago.
And if you are talking about the “top” director who blasted MK all over Survivors and then went over to PT and did it there, I know who that is and she is one of the most unethical people I have ever heard of, so I don’t put much stock in her opinion on the subject. If it is someone different, than I cannot comment on that without knowing who you speak of.
And you are welcome to defend anyone here, Colleen. Obviously your experience with Laura is more pleasant than mine, and that’s fine. But she gets on my